Editor's note: Miami Steve Van Zandt, dressed in a casual version of his
on-stage gypsy garb, sat in his downtown Minneapolis hotel room Monday
afternoon, listening to a CD of vintage Rolling Stones songs, sipping ginger
tea, and chain-smoking cigarettes. With Pioneer Press pop music critic Jim
Walsh, Van Zandt--a. k. a. "Little Steven''-- discussed everything from
Buddhism and politics to his new album, "Born Again Savage,'' his recurring
role on "The Sopranos,'' his friendship with Bruce Springsteen, and Monday
night's show at the Target Center, the last tour stop of 1999 for the
reunited E Street Band.
Q: Great show last night. And now tonight's the last night of the tour,
right? How does that feel?
A: Personally, I hope that it's gonna continue. It's the end of this year.
It's a little too good to go, "OK, see ya,'' and walk away. I can't see
that. I think we'll be back. Nothing's been decided, nothing's been really
talked about, but I'm not thinking of this as the end of anything.
Q: Bruce said last night that this has been the best year of your lives. Is
that true?
A: Yeah, I think so. It's very rewarding, man, to come back 20 years later
and see that reaction from an audience. It reaffirms what you hoped you were
doing in the first place. And I'm very proud of the fact that we've managed
to keep the whole thing very much in the present tense. It's a tricky
business, you know?
I didn't want to go out and be some sort of nostalgia act or something like
that. And I don't think it comes across that way. I think it comes across as
very NOW. And we've always been that way; we've always kind of been our own
thing, we never really fit in anywhere. We've always been somewhere to the
left of whatever's fashionable, anyway, so it doesn't really matter. You
hope to achieve some kind of timelessness, and certainly the stuff feels as
relevant as it did then in a lot of ways.
Q: What kind of stuff do you listen to these days?
A: I'll check out new things from time to time, but I don't need the input.
I think, at some point in our lives, we all get sort of filled up with
whatever it is. I like Rage Against the Machine, I check out whatever
Metallica's doing, I like this group Garbage. But mostly, I listen to stuff
from the '60s. I'm still there, man, and I'm not nostalgic about that,
either: It still does the same thing to me as it did then.
Q: That's part of what I want to talk about. In both your record and the
show last night, a lot of the themes are about the best parts of hippiedom,
or whatever you want to call it. Stuff that kind of got sneered at along the
way--that embracing of enlightenment and encouragement.
A: The '60s was an absolute revolution, and a rennaissance. And as much as
it's written about and talked about, it's actually under-rated, in terms of
its significance. Everything we think about, and how we think about things,
changed. And part of that was just being turned onto other stuff, including
Eastern philosophy, and other cultures, and consciousnesses.
I had a really cool librarian in high school who was one of those
beatnik-type women who wore shades, and I could relate to her in that the
generation gap was really about to happen, big-time. And she kind of crossed
the lines; she was kind of hip, and freaky. I used to talk to her about Bob
Dylan and she turned me on to Allen Ginsberg. And [Ginsberg's] "Howl,'' to
this day, is just one of the most influential things I've ever read. And
because Ginsberg talked about Buddhism, I started getting into it. But as
you suggest, a lot of what was good about the '60s went by the wayside.
Q: There's some spiritual restlessness going on in your new record. Have you
ruminated about where that comes from?
A: I don't know if you'd call it restlessness. In my case, I think it has to
do with my inability to exactly fit in. I just don't very often join things,
or belong to things. All through my political years, I was associated with a
lot of organizations, but I spent half my time criticizing them.
It's a bit of a paradox. I like being a team guy, I'm a band guy. I like
doing things together for a common purpose, but at the same time, it's not
often that I actually agree with everything to the point where I would
endorse the whole thing. I tend to be an independent thinker; I was part of
the anti-apartheid movement and other things, but I was never a guy on the
left, or a liberal, so to speak. I take things issue by issue. And the same
thing applies to religion.
Q: What are you trying to do with this record?
A: It's what I've tried to do with all five of the (solo) albums: Try to
learn about myself, and learn about what's going on in the world, and pass
it on. It's a great way to understand yourself, and if it reaches somebody,
great. But that's not why I do it. It's just a great way to have that mirror
on the table. There's a lot of internal chaos going on all the time, and
this is a good way to try to make some sense of it.
Q: How much different is it from being a part of the E Street Band, and
doing your own thing?
A: It's 180 degrees different. When you work with any artist in a
complimentary way, you're helping the artist realize their vision. And I
think you have to endorse that vision to do it. But it's their vision, it's
not yours. And I think I was lucky in the case of Bruce, to find somebody
who has quite a different sensibility about what he does. Sure, we share a
few common themes, but not many. And I appreciate that, and really respect
that, and I'm happy to be a part of that. But it's not my work. It's a
whole different thing.
Q: I would argue with that, simply because when you see a show like last
night's, there's the kind of obvious camaraderie there is between you guys.
You say it's not your vision, but the heat that comes from that stage, and
that celebration of friendship, and music, is all your vision.
A: No, no, I don't disagree with that. He's my oldest friend. We've been
friends for f---ing 36 years. Since we were 16. Scary. Delete that! We know
each other very well, and that friendship thing is very, very important.
That's what it's all about, for me. His work has to be something I can
relate to, otherwise we'd just "jam'' occassionally. The show, the
friendship thing, that's been our thing since the beginning. And I think
that's been part of what's made us a success. We're third generation rock
'n' rollers, so we grew up with the Beatles and the Stones and the Who and
the Kinks, and we thought they were like us: great friends. You find out
later that they hated each other, which is a shame, and more information
than I wanted to know.
Q: But the illusion is there.
A: The illusion is important, in this case. It was important for us. But we
took it past the illusion stage, and that's what rock music's all about.
It's about bands. And what's a band? It's a family. It's a bunch of friends
united in common thought, common purpose. And that is just universally
appealing, because everybody wants more friends, or a friend.
Q: The vibe of the show last night wasn't "We're rock stars up here and
you're down there. '' It was, "C'mon and join the party. '' Even, "Join the
band. ''
A: It's an interaction. That communication that's been going on is real, and
it has been for 20 years. And this tour is certainly reminding everybody
about that. Unfortunately, it went somewhere else (when the band went on
hiatus) for ten years. And I think that was unfortunate. When you establish
this relationship with an audience like that, I think some responsibility
comes with that. We entered into an emotional contract with them: You supply
us with this, we supply you with that, and we exchange this energy. Then,
bang, it's gone. And that's the way life is, but I do think it's
unfortunate, and I think that's why this tour is really important--to
reestablish contact with those people, who, for all I know, haven't been to
(another concert) since (the E Street Band was off the road).
Q: Well, I've been to a lot. And there haven't been many like last night.
It's a different animal.
A: It's a different time, too. The rock era as we knew it, is over. I'm not
some record company guy saying, "Rock is dead,'' here. There's always gonna
be good rock music. But the era which informed the culture for 30 years, is
over. We're back in the "pop'' era, and all the pop rules apply: People
can't wait to get their song on a commercial now, and all that. You know,
fine. It's just different. People think it's a cyclical thing, that rock
music is going to come back really big again. Well, that's not going to
happen. Because the infrastructure's gone.
Q: Which is also why this tour has been such a balm to people. Even if they
can't name it, even if they don't pay attention to what's going on
musically, they can feel the cultural shift. And last night was a
reminder--in a totally not nostalgic way--of the kind of damage music can do
when it really gets inside.
A: The point of this whole tour, and the fact that we still exist and
continue to make records, is that there's a value system that we had that is
very much applicable and practical and useful, that can be applied today.
Friendship. Rebirth. Transformation. Learning about yourself. All that stuff
is essential, universal, and forever. But right now, everybody's attention
spans are so short, and they're just gonna get worse. I mean, just the fact
that we're doing a three-hour show and the fact that we're taking our time
about it, and have these dynamics--that trip is sort of a thing of the past.
You've got to slow down a little bit. Don't edit every two seconds. And this
goes all the way back to the meditation process of Buddha, and Jesus, and
all those guys. And that's never gonna change, no matter how fast the edits
come. Otherwise, you lose the center. And that, in another way, extends into
the fact that people don't have anything they can depend on. There's no
consistency. TV is a wasteland--except for "The Sopranos'' (laughs)--movies,
the phones don't work, and the computer crashes, and nothing works! And you
go to McDonald's, and they go, (snidely) 'What do YOU want?' It's like
everybody's walking around with shades on. There's no life. There's no
heroes. We're in this weird limbo. And that's what my record's all
about--this spiritual bankruptcy, and the political consequences of that.
Q: What you're talking about is hard to get a handle on. In the '80s,
politics was something artists could butt up against. It was tangible. But
now it's the Internet, and cynicism, and bankrupt spirituality. But I do
hear a movement afoot--you, Bruce, some punk rock bands, others--raging
against it all, saying, "Technology ain't all that. How 'bout the here and
now and flesh and blood?'' It's about seizing the day.
A: The fact is, technology is progressing faster than the human species can
handle, so you're gonna have that rebellion. What you do with that is up to
you. It's a very interesting time. Maybe the lack of heroes will make people
look inward. Maybe people will be their own heroes, again. That's what I've
been saying on all of my albums: You gotta be your own hero.
